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foreign

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[Music]

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this is the saucer life exploring the

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history and lore of flying saucers I'm

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Aaron gullies

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the saucer life is a podcast in which we

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explore Concepts events or people from

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the world of flying saucers no

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preconceptions no snark no belief no

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debunking no FBI informants

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this is encounter 206 and then the feds

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showed up

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episode had strange Journey it started

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off as part of encounter 204 the second

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part of our big journey through 1954.

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then as that episode got too big it was

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going to be a bonus encounter then I

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found some more stuff and then I went

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down a rabbit hole or two and it just

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ballooned from there the Detroit Flying

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Saucer Club turned out to be way more

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interesting than I ever thought it would

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be while flipping through the first

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issue of the Mana or rather to be

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correct vinama

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this week we're going to look at the

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Detroit Flying Saucer Club Through The

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Eyes of the Federal Bureau of

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Investigation and along the way meet one

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of the much less well-known figures from

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the classic contact the era of ufology

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if you haven't listened to encounters

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203 and 204 those are good companions to

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this episode and they'll give you a

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little context into what was going on in

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the mid 50s but if you haven't heard

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those yet don't worry all of this is

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also something of a cautionary Tale

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about the strange Connections in the

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saucer world and where those can take

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you if you're not careful and even

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though this was just going to be a bit

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of an extra addition to encounter 204 it

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ended up being longer and more complex

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than I was expecting when I started out

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in late 1954 around the same time as the

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first issues of the mono were coming out

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the Detroit Office of the FBI was

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receiving some information about the

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Detroit Flying Saucer Club we'll begin

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with a report filed on November 30th

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1954. please note that some of the names

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of informants are still redacted

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purpose of this letter is to set out for

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the

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chronologically

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on May 18 1954 Mrs

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advised that she had been attending

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meetings concerning flying saucers

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Rockets to the Moon Etc which she felt

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could be subversive

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on May 27 1954

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and

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Detroit advised that one Georgia damsky

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had talked to Detroit on flying saucers

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they were alarmed at the nature of the

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remarks such as we are Americans but and

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that we should reduce our arms and would

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blow ourselves up with the h-bomb

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because visitors from outer space were

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afraid we had started something that we

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would let get out of hand

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as researchers and writers like Nick

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Redfern have pointed out in books about

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government investigation of flying

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saucer clubs and researchers a lot of

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the evidence we have is that when

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organizations like the FBI scrutinized

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the saucer Scene It usually was because

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of issues like this someone involved in

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an organization thinks someone else

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involved in an organization may be up to

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no good

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like we saw in our episodes on the zine

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scene in the 50s there was certainly a

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fear in some quarters that communist

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infiltration might be affecting Flying

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Saucer organizations but sometimes the

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definition of subversive political

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beliefs got a little looser and wider

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than we might expect

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on July 13 1954

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advised that

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was bringing to Detroit someone who had

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talked to people from Venus Clarion Etc

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who are more highly advanced than Earth

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people they advocated the Golden Rule as

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the only workable rule a meeting was to

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be held on July 15 1954.

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also furnished a letter from one

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encouraging him in his interest in

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flying saucers

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felt such an organization could use the

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Flying Saucer scare as a political

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propaganda he said they opposed the

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atomic bomb and warfare

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advised she attended the July 15 1954

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meeting of the Flying Saucer group the

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purpose was to organize a flying saucer

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club in Detroit

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was behind it she said she first met him

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when he came into the store to buy books

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on flying saucers an organizational

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letter was passed out at the meeting

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stating the purpose of the Flying Saucer

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Club of Detroit

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the purpose was one exchange ideas and

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in general become aware of the Flying

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Saucer picture two invite National

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saucer speakers to Detroit and Enlighten

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the public three spread information on

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flying saucers four engage in those

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aspects of saucer interests especially

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appealing to each member such as

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astronomy engineering spiritual

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curiosity Etc

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you know there's no actual communism

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here and to be clear and fair the FBI

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isn't saying there is but it's

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interesting to me that those who

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contacted the FBI thought that such

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ideas as adhering to the Golden Rule and

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opposing Warfare were subversive enough

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to squeal to the feds

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the goals of the club don't seem to be

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any stranger than those of any other

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standard Municipal Flying Saucer Club of

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the time what's presented in this report

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also seems to be along the lines of the

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goals the club outlined in the first

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issue of vamana

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but there's something and someone else

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going on here and this is where I ended

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up going down one of the rabbit holes I

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was talking about

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I didn't mention it a couple years ago

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because I didn't realize the

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significance but there was an officer of

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the Detroit Flying Saucer club named

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Laura markser who was resigning from the

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dfsc to work with another club and

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undertake some

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saucer Outreach might be the best way to

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put it after reading about her in these

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FBI papers I threw her name into my

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Google machine and found out that she

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was more commonly known by her maiden

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name Laura Mundo and that was a name

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that rang some Bells

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I looked at my by this time very

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well-worn copy of Jim Mosley's

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autobiography it mentioned that Mundo

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was a supporter of George damski and had

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composed some UFO pamphlets back in the

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day that had been published by gray

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Barker in the 1950s and 1960s

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so what's the deal with Laura Mundo or

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marxer as the case may be

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well according to one informant to the

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FBI she had a slightly different vision

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for the Detroit Flying Saucer Club

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on October 13 1954 said that asked him

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to call a meeting October 18 1954. at

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this time he said he felt he knew less

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about the club than anyone but he

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thought it would make a good cover for

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subversive activities he was advised

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that the object of group discussions

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according to marxer was one to

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indoctrinate people to receive space

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people two Mass Landings in Detroit in

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October no further information explained

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three a saucer landed at 4 30 a.m

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September 30th 1954 at rotunda Drive in

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Southfield in Detroit with a strange

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greenish men and Brown uniforms

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four unseen psychic forces

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indoctrination is a pretty scary term in

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1954.

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heck it makes me kind of leery here in

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2017. there were other issues as well at

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subsequent meetings of the Detroit

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Flying Saucer Club

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at the October 18 1954 meeting a group

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leader from Detroit said that

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post-group meetings because of

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accusations against them of subversive

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activities

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an unidentified person said he did not

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think it was true but it was alleged one

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member of the board of directors was a

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communist answered this by saying he

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would mention no names but the accuser

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should see him about this and the

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accused was not a communist he said

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fellow Travelers could get in or

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infiltrate the club but he was at a loss

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as to any way of controlling that as a

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result of this meeting felt the group

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was either subversive or a new religious

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group he felt it all stems from adamsky

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in California it's like a staging of The

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Crucible in there isn't it we also

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learned that adamski was not wild about

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markser Slash Mundo making predictions

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of course there were other issues with

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Laura

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he said he reported to adamski the

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predictions of markzer and adamsky felt

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she should not predict more than 30 days

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in advance and even that was no good

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said that on November 8 1954

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advised him she was resigning from the

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board of directors of the club as she

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had too many outside interests and she

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had to eat she said she was going to

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show the film The Day the Earth Stood

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Still around Michigan as a result of

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having met two men not named

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now the second redaction in there I

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believe is Laura I'm not sure why it

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would be redacted in some places but on

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others but given the article on her

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resignation in the second issue of the

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Mana it fits we also learned the name of

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the two men or the names rather of the

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two men that were unnamed in the FBI

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report

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Laura markzer accepts opportunity to

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spread sauce or message through saucer

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research Society

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although many in the club will miss her

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Laura markzer will be leaving the dfsc

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for a term to accept a wider opportunity

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in other saucer fields in association

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with Robert chapac and Frank Clark the

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saucer research Society was recently

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launched for the purpose of taking

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saucer research up throughout Michigan

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and into other state areas

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it is a wonderful opportunity and one

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that only a qualified person such as

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Laura could handle it is also timely

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that they will be taking the film The

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Day the Earth Stood Still as basic

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lecture material with Laura bringing out

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the message within each town which this

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picture undeniably upholds

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needless to State we will miss Laura

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greatly still she will never be far away

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from us her recent letter of resignation

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is Vice President of the Detroit Flying

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Saucer Club was tabled and the

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pioneering work which she has done in

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Breaking the newspaper Prejudice and

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helping to get the neighborhood groups

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underway coordinating sightings acting

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as telephone counselor Etc have built

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strong fibers into our foundation we

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wish her all the good fortune in the

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world for she is accepting a challenge

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which she knows is rightly intended for

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her

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oh and one last thing from the FBI

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report about Laura

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she said adamski in California was her

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God

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admitting his Earthly fall

279
00:10:29,470 --> 00:10:26,700
yikes will return to Laura when we're

280
00:10:32,810 --> 00:10:29,480
done with the FBI it gets a little even

281
00:10:34,970 --> 00:10:32,820
more strange with her

282
00:10:36,889 --> 00:10:34,980
the report concludes with some

283
00:10:39,050 --> 00:10:36,899
reassurances that the office is not

284
00:10:40,550 --> 00:10:39,060
carrying on an active investigation but

285
00:10:42,350 --> 00:10:40,560
rather is simply passing along

286
00:10:45,530 --> 00:10:42,360
information

287
00:10:47,389 --> 00:10:45,540
on November 23 1954

288
00:10:49,490 --> 00:10:47,399
called to advise he was going to do a

289
00:10:51,590 --> 00:10:49,500
story on the dfsc and their activities

290
00:10:53,329 --> 00:10:51,600
he inquired whether the FBI was

291
00:10:54,889 --> 00:10:53,339
investigating the club and was advised

292
00:10:57,230 --> 00:10:54,899
we could make no statement one way or

293
00:10:58,850 --> 00:10:57,240
another regarding the organization it is

294
00:11:00,050 --> 00:10:58,860
not been on the date his story will

295
00:11:01,970 --> 00:11:00,060
appear

296
00:11:04,130 --> 00:11:01,980
the Detroit office has conducted no

297
00:11:05,449 --> 00:11:04,140
investigation of the ddfsc and has

298
00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:05,459
received its information from those

299
00:11:09,470 --> 00:11:07,260
indicated above who are voluntarily

300
00:11:11,810 --> 00:11:09,480
Furnishing it no investigation of the

301
00:11:14,030 --> 00:11:11,820
club is contemplated at this time the

302
00:11:16,490 --> 00:11:14,040
bureau however apparently saw something

303
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:16,500
more in all of this Detroit Flying

304
00:11:27,050 --> 00:11:25,009
meaning the pertinent information

305
00:11:29,329 --> 00:11:27,060
in order that it can be disseminated by

306
00:11:30,889 --> 00:11:29,339
The Bureau to OSI and to the internal

307
00:11:32,210 --> 00:11:30,899
security division of the Department of

308
00:11:34,130 --> 00:11:32,220
Justice

309
00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:34,140
in view of the facts set forth in the

310
00:11:37,850 --> 00:11:36,000
reference letter

311
00:11:40,190 --> 00:11:37,860
gation of this matter need be conducted

312
00:11:42,050 --> 00:11:40,200
by your office at this time

313
00:11:44,090 --> 00:11:42,060
Hoover

314
00:11:47,290 --> 00:11:44,100
clearly there were some concerns at some

315
00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:47,300
level next in a message dated January 5

316
00:11:51,949 --> 00:11:50,160
1955 special agent in charge McIntyre

317
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:51,959
from the Detroit office reported on a

318
00:11:59,810 --> 00:11:54,959
meeting with a dfsb member

319
00:12:02,810 --> 00:11:59,820
January 5 1955. one who is a member of

320
00:12:04,670 --> 00:12:02,820
above Club advised that twice has stated

321
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:04,680
he is quote working in conjunction with

322
00:12:08,590 --> 00:12:06,720
the FBI and has been told to report to

323
00:12:10,670 --> 00:12:08,600
Washington D.C for a conference

324
00:12:12,590 --> 00:12:10,680
reportedly said he has been instructed

325
00:12:14,750 --> 00:12:12,600
to bring another Club officer

326
00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:14,760
with them when the time came to go to

327
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:16,800
Washington said it was impossible for

328
00:12:20,449 --> 00:12:18,240
him to go and they would do so later

329
00:12:21,410 --> 00:12:20,459
both statements were made within the

330
00:12:23,210 --> 00:12:21,420
past month

331
00:12:25,069 --> 00:12:23,220
the Detroit office preparing a report

332
00:12:28,850 --> 00:12:25,079
suitable for dissemination on this club

333
00:12:30,350 --> 00:12:28,860
immediately after January 15 1955 will

334
00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:30,360
be interviewed by Detroit regarding

335
00:12:34,190 --> 00:12:32,040
above statements reprimanded and

336
00:12:36,110 --> 00:12:34,200
cautioned to refrain from such in the

337
00:12:37,490 --> 00:12:36,120
future unless advised to the contrary by

338
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:37,500
the bureau

339
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:49,670
for your office

340
00:12:54,829 --> 00:12:51,710
contrary in which case the bureau should

341
00:12:56,269 --> 00:12:54,839
be advised Hoover so McIntyre got to

342
00:12:58,490 --> 00:12:56,279
work and interviewed the mysterious

343
00:13:01,069 --> 00:12:58,500
member filing a report on January 12

344
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:01,079
1955.

345
00:13:06,290 --> 00:13:04,079
Detroit interview January 11 1955 in

346
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:06,300
bureaucar and vicinity of

347
00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:08,160
denied making any statement he was

348
00:13:12,410 --> 00:13:10,079
working with or had any connection with

349
00:13:13,790 --> 00:13:12,420
FBI he claimed such allegation could

350
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,800
have Arisen as a result of questions

351
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,839
asked during sung meeting as to whether

352
00:13:20,449 --> 00:13:17,519
the club had furnished information to

353
00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:20,459
the FBI or other government agency

354
00:13:24,350 --> 00:13:22,500
he replied he or the club would be

355
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:24,360
willing to cooperate with anyone at any

356
00:13:28,190 --> 00:13:26,399
time he was cautioned to make no

357
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:28,200
representation or statement leaving the

358
00:13:33,230 --> 00:13:29,760
impression he had any connection with

359
00:13:34,730 --> 00:13:33,240
the FBI as to reporting to Washington

360
00:13:36,829 --> 00:13:34,740
said he and

361
00:13:38,269 --> 00:13:36,839
another club director we're going to

362
00:13:40,730 --> 00:13:38,279
Washington DC to present their

363
00:13:42,650 --> 00:13:40,740
information quote to the Pentagon and

364
00:13:44,269 --> 00:13:42,660
they hoped to see quote someone in Air

365
00:13:45,949 --> 00:13:44,279
Force intelligence

366
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:45,959
said they intended taking with them

367
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:48,240
someone or possibly two who had actually

368
00:13:52,430 --> 00:13:50,639
cited saucers and if they get no one to

369
00:13:54,590 --> 00:13:52,440
go they will get affidavits from saucer

370
00:13:56,329 --> 00:13:54,600
ciders their purpose in going is to

371
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:56,339
furnish what info they have

372
00:14:00,350 --> 00:13:58,320
in possession of the club on flying

373
00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:00,360
saucer sightings and to obtain what info

374
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,120
they can on saucers from the government

375
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:05,279
claimed he knew of no info they had

376
00:14:09,290 --> 00:14:06,959
which might affect the National Defense

377
00:14:10,670 --> 00:14:09,300
or internal security of the U.S he

378
00:14:12,949 --> 00:14:10,680
claims one

379
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:12,959
of New Mexico has actually flown in a

380
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:14,880
saucer from Sandia base to New York City

381
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:17,279
the round trip requiring only 30 minutes

382
00:14:21,410 --> 00:14:19,440
this is probably a reference to

383
00:14:24,350 --> 00:14:21,420
contactee Daniel fry who we'll be

384
00:14:26,569 --> 00:14:24,360
looking at in long form in the future

385
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:26,579
claimed saucer clubs have actually

386
00:14:30,889 --> 00:14:28,800
received messages from outer space and

387
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:30,899
although says he does not know he feels

388
00:14:34,670 --> 00:14:32,880
they do exist have been seen by many

389
00:14:35,690 --> 00:14:34,680
people and claims he has seen them

390
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:35,700
himself

391
00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:37,440
he feels the purpose of contacts with

392
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:39,180
Earth is limited at this time to

393
00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:40,800
Preparing People to receive Landings

394
00:14:45,230 --> 00:14:43,260
from outer space he said the saucers are

395
00:14:47,329 --> 00:14:45,240
friendly to U.S he said messages

396
00:14:49,730 --> 00:14:47,339
received indicate all planets but Earth

397
00:14:51,470 --> 00:14:49,740
have conquered outer space outer space

398
00:14:54,590 --> 00:14:51,480
peoples consider those on Earth the

399
00:14:56,689 --> 00:14:54,600
lowest form of universal existence

400
00:14:58,430 --> 00:14:56,699
impressed agents as being only a Layman

401
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:58,440
who has been carried beyond the realm of

402
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:00,720
scientific fact into that of possible

403
00:15:06,050 --> 00:15:03,600
scientific fiction

404
00:15:07,610 --> 00:15:06,060
it is requested the bureau advised

405
00:15:09,710 --> 00:15:07,620
whether any attempts be made by Detroit

406
00:15:12,410 --> 00:15:09,720
to obtain any of the material mentioned

407
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:12,420
by as being in possession of the Flying

408
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:14,880
Saucer Club this probably would require

409
00:15:19,189 --> 00:15:16,800
contacts with other officers of the club

410
00:15:21,889 --> 00:15:19,199
which might be undesirable particularly

411
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,899
due to the doubt existing that they

412
00:15:25,790 --> 00:15:23,519
could be contacted on a confidential

413
00:15:27,230 --> 00:15:25,800
basis

414
00:15:29,329 --> 00:15:27,240
I think there's something of a Charming

415
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:29,339
naivete here in the Detroit folks plan

416
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:32,160
to provide info on flying saucers to Air

417
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:33,839
Force intelligence and hopefully get

418
00:15:38,030 --> 00:15:35,519
some information from them

419
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:38,040
we're almost but not quite to the time

420
00:15:42,410 --> 00:15:40,079
when saucer aficionados would nearly

421
00:15:44,689 --> 00:15:42,420
universally see the U.S Air Force as the

422
00:15:46,430 --> 00:15:44,699
enemy here at least we see some evidence

423
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:46,440
that there were those who thought that

424
00:15:50,930 --> 00:15:49,199
civilian saucer organizations could and

425
00:15:53,870 --> 00:15:50,940
should work in tandem with the military

426
00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:53,880
in order to solve the mystery or prepare

427
00:15:57,050 --> 00:15:55,680
the public for the possibility of life

428
00:15:59,150 --> 00:15:57,060
on other worlds

429
00:16:01,610 --> 00:15:59,160
it's safe to assume I think that little

430
00:16:04,009 --> 00:16:01,620
of that actually went on at least in a

431
00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:04,019
formal acknowledged way

432
00:16:10,009 --> 00:16:07,199
Hoover's response on January 18 1955

433
00:16:11,629 --> 00:16:10,019
summed up the typical FBI response to

434
00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:11,639
anything that had to do with actual

435
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:13,920
flying saucers

436
00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:16,320
investigation re-citing of flying

437
00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:18,180
saucers and information concerning the

438
00:16:21,829 --> 00:16:19,980
flying saucers is within the

439
00:16:24,170 --> 00:16:21,839
jurisdiction of the Air Force and not

440
00:16:26,269 --> 00:16:24,180
the bureau the bureau does not desire

441
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:26,279
your office to obtain from club or its

442
00:16:30,530 --> 00:16:28,320
members material concerning flying

443
00:16:32,090 --> 00:16:30,540
saucers the information concerning

444
00:16:33,949 --> 00:16:32,100
material reportedly in possession of

445
00:16:36,290 --> 00:16:33,959
Club should be referred to in the report

446
00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:36,300
being prepared by your office

447
00:16:40,610 --> 00:16:38,040
if your report should be furnished to

448
00:16:43,490 --> 00:16:40,620
OSI locally Hoover

449
00:16:46,189 --> 00:16:43,500
flying saucers not our problem communist

450
00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:46,199
Flying Saucer Believers possibly our

451
00:16:49,790 --> 00:16:47,220
problem

452
00:16:51,769 --> 00:16:49,800
now when people ask the FBI about flying

453
00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:51,779
saucers and the response would usually

454
00:16:56,269 --> 00:16:53,940
be something along the lines of you need

455
00:16:58,550 --> 00:16:56,279
to talk to the Air Force if you ask them

456
00:17:00,829 --> 00:16:58,560
about flying saucer personalities the

457
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:00,839
response could be somewhat different for

458
00:17:04,370 --> 00:17:02,639
example at the same time the bureau is

459
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:04,380
taking a look at the Detroit Flying

460
00:17:08,569 --> 00:17:06,720
Saucer Club a concerned citizen in

461
00:17:09,770 --> 00:17:08,579
California sent this letter to J Edgar

462
00:17:14,270 --> 00:17:09,780
Hoover

463
00:17:16,669 --> 00:17:14,280
the man who wrote the book aboard a

464
00:17:18,350 --> 00:17:16,679
flying saucer he sounds sincere but I am

465
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:18,360
always skeptical and I've been wondering

466
00:17:21,230 --> 00:17:19,919
if he could be trying to put over any

467
00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:21,240
propaganda

468
00:17:24,590 --> 00:17:22,860
I'm president of the Palm Springs

469
00:17:26,449 --> 00:17:24,600
Republican Club just by way of

470
00:17:27,949 --> 00:17:26,459
identification and a number of my

471
00:17:30,110 --> 00:17:27,959
members heard him and would like to know

472
00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:30,120
if he's all right anything you tell me

473
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:31,740
will be kept in strictest confidence

474
00:17:36,890 --> 00:17:34,200
very truly yours

475
00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:36,900
Thousand Palms California

476
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:38,820
Hoover's response was a terse

477
00:17:45,650 --> 00:17:42,480
Masterpiece of a non-answer dear

478
00:17:46,909 --> 00:17:45,660
your letter dated February 6 1954 has

479
00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:46,919
been received

480
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:48,360
although I would like to be of service

481
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:51,120
information in FBI Files is confidential

482
00:17:55,730 --> 00:17:54,000
and available for official use only

483
00:17:57,890 --> 00:17:55,740
I would like to point out also that this

484
00:18:00,409 --> 00:17:57,900
Bureau is strictly effect finding agency

485
00:18:02,029 --> 00:18:00,419
and does not make evaluations or draw

486
00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:02,039
conclusions as to the Charter or

487
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:04,440
Integrity of any individual publication

488
00:18:08,029 --> 00:18:06,480
or organization

489
00:18:09,650 --> 00:18:08,039
I know you will understand the reason

490
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:09,660
for these rules and will not infer

491
00:18:14,930 --> 00:18:12,000
either that we do or that we do not have

492
00:18:18,590 --> 00:18:14,940
the information you desire sincerely

493
00:18:20,810 --> 00:18:18,600
yours John Edgar Hoover director

494
00:18:23,090 --> 00:18:20,820
interesting to me at least was the note

495
00:18:24,289 --> 00:18:23,100
appended to the file copy of Hoover's

496
00:18:25,789 --> 00:18:24,299
response

497
00:18:29,870 --> 00:18:25,799
note

498
00:18:32,690 --> 00:18:31,610
a despondent did not furnish its

499
00:18:35,090 --> 00:18:32,700
author's name

500
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:35,100
per call to Library of Congress aboard a

501
00:18:40,010 --> 00:18:36,720
flying saucer was written by Truman

502
00:18:41,930 --> 00:18:40,020
betherham in June 1954 an inquiry was

503
00:18:44,029 --> 00:18:41,940
made by the Cincinnati office concerning

504
00:18:45,650 --> 00:18:44,039
bathroom and his flying disc lectures

505
00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:45,660
since that office had received the

506
00:18:51,650 --> 00:18:46,980
complaints similar to the current

507
00:18:55,490 --> 00:18:53,750
no other references were located which

508
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:55,500
might be identical with subject of

509
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:57,840
current inquiry

510
00:19:03,169 --> 00:19:00,960
so despite the relatively ideology light

511
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:03,179
nature of bethram's book at least

512
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:05,039
compared to a damscape there had been

513
00:19:08,990 --> 00:19:06,960
other complaints about it like the

514
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:09,000
concerns about the speakers brought into

515
00:19:13,850 --> 00:19:11,280
the Detroit Flying Saucer club or about

516
00:19:15,409 --> 00:19:13,860
its leadership the content was not at

517
00:19:17,090 --> 00:19:15,419
least to our eyes and ears here in the

518
00:19:19,610 --> 00:19:17,100
second decade of the 21st century

519
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:19,620
overtly Un-American but it was a

520
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:22,080
different time when people ask me why

521
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:24,000
the contactees concealed their political

522
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:25,679
and social messages and stories about

523
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:27,600
flying saucers which is one of the

524
00:19:32,330 --> 00:19:29,760
things I argue that they were doing I

525
00:19:34,190 --> 00:19:32,340
point to evidence like these FBI Files

526
00:19:35,690 --> 00:19:34,200
when you're talking up the Golden Rule

527
00:19:38,510 --> 00:19:35,700
and that's getting you noticed by your

528
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:38,520
fellow citizens you got to be careful

529
00:19:43,130 --> 00:19:40,799
speaking of ideology and contact ease we

530
00:19:45,230 --> 00:19:43,140
need to get back to Laura Mundo

531
00:19:48,529 --> 00:19:45,240
her first piece of flying saucer writing

532
00:19:50,570 --> 00:19:48,539
came out in 1956 presumably when she had

533
00:19:52,430 --> 00:19:50,580
finished touring The Day the Earth Stood

534
00:19:54,770 --> 00:19:52,440
Still around Michigan it provides some

535
00:19:57,049 --> 00:19:54,780
confirmation that our FBI informants

536
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:57,059
report of her ideas was pretty much on

537
00:20:00,830 --> 00:19:58,799
the mark

538
00:20:02,810 --> 00:20:00,840
it is imperative that the work of

539
00:20:04,850 --> 00:20:02,820
indoctrinating the people of this planet

540
00:20:08,090 --> 00:20:04,860
into receiving the visitors proceed

541
00:20:10,130 --> 00:20:08,100
without interruption those who are aware

542
00:20:12,650 --> 00:20:10,140
of the visitors and sit in meditation

543
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:12,660
circles trying to contact them or

544
00:20:17,210 --> 00:20:14,400
attempting to bring themselves to a

545
00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:17,220
further awareness of self only are

546
00:20:21,049 --> 00:20:19,140
pursuing selfish ends and spending

547
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:21,059
energy and time that should be spent

548
00:20:26,029 --> 00:20:23,280
towards helping their fellow man to

549
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:26,039
become aware of the visitors there is no

550
00:20:31,789 --> 00:20:28,799
need to contact the visitors they know

551
00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:31,799
of each one of us and our efforts and

552
00:20:36,830 --> 00:20:33,660
our members of our saucer organizations

553
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:36,840
working right along with us those who

554
00:20:40,909 --> 00:20:38,880
seek for the visitors will someday be

555
00:20:44,029 --> 00:20:40,919
surprised to learn that they have been

556
00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:44,039
right at hand all the time they do not

557
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,260
have time to reveal themselves to those

558
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:48,480
whose only interests might prove to be

559
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:51,120
the sensation of having had a contact

560
00:20:56,270 --> 00:20:54,240
only to brag about it after we've shown

561
00:20:58,610 --> 00:20:56,280
our good intentions of Desiring to help

562
00:21:01,070 --> 00:20:58,620
make it possible for them to be received

563
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:01,080
by everyone as one who would receive a

564
00:21:06,610 --> 00:21:03,840
visitor without fear or undue fanaticism

565
00:21:09,789 --> 00:21:06,620
they can then openly identify themselves

566
00:21:12,830 --> 00:21:09,799
to everyone and visit freely amongst us

567
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:12,840
and once more extend a helping brotherly

568
00:21:17,930 --> 00:21:15,600
hand should we need one

569
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:17,940
well that's comforting isn't it they're

570
00:21:23,210 --> 00:21:21,600
here Among Us in our saucer clubs when I

571
00:21:25,070 --> 00:21:23,220
first read that the first thing that

572
00:21:27,650 --> 00:21:25,080
jumped into my head was that Jim Mosley

573
00:21:29,690 --> 00:21:27,660
a few weeks ago was only slightly off he

574
00:21:32,450 --> 00:21:29,700
had said upon a time that Communists had

575
00:21:34,610 --> 00:21:32,460
infiltrated every saucer Club he was

576
00:21:36,289 --> 00:21:34,620
close but it was actually the venusians

577
00:21:37,850 --> 00:21:36,299
that had accomplished this

578
00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:37,860
of course looking at it another way

579
00:21:41,390 --> 00:21:40,080
perhaps the venusians and the Communists

580
00:21:43,370 --> 00:21:41,400
were one in the same

581
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:43,380
and what about a damski

582
00:21:48,049 --> 00:21:45,600
that FBI file reported that Mundo

583
00:22:00,049 --> 00:21:48,059
claimed him as her God despite his flaws

584
00:22:04,850 --> 00:22:02,450
shares for many years and saw him in all

585
00:22:06,649 --> 00:22:04,860
kinds of situations I have written about

586
00:22:08,990 --> 00:22:06,659
him suddenly grabbing me and kissing me

587
00:22:10,730 --> 00:22:09,000
smack on the lips and the hotel suite I

588
00:22:13,310 --> 00:22:10,740
had arranged for him to stay in together

589
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:13,320
with other members of the first diwsky

590
00:22:18,830 --> 00:22:16,559
Detroit Committee in 1954 to the utter

591
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:18,840
Chagrin of another woman member of the

592
00:22:23,149 --> 00:22:21,120
committee another time he accidentally

593
00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:23,159
put his hand on my bosom as he helped me

594
00:22:28,130 --> 00:22:25,980
from the car later he rubbed my knee

595
00:22:29,690 --> 00:22:28,140
under the table with his knee when the

596
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:29,700
committee and I took him out to dinner

597
00:22:33,409 --> 00:22:31,200
after the lecture

598
00:22:34,970 --> 00:22:33,419
I could have been self-righteously

599
00:22:37,070 --> 00:22:34,980
offended and there are those who would

600
00:22:38,810 --> 00:22:37,080
say that I was immoral if I had not been

601
00:22:40,610 --> 00:22:38,820
but I had already discovered that

602
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,620
adamski did these things only when

603
00:22:45,470 --> 00:22:42,960
others were around when he and I were

604
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:45,480
alone in a hotel room he was all

605
00:22:51,289 --> 00:22:48,960
business he used more ways than one to

606
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:51,299
Slough off people who were so busy

607
00:22:56,330 --> 00:22:54,000
judging the messenger they lost sight of

608
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:56,340
the message so adamsky's boorish

609
00:23:02,029 --> 00:22:59,520
harassment of Mundo was what a test if

610
00:23:03,289 --> 00:23:02,039
anyone objected to him groping her then

611
00:23:05,090 --> 00:23:03,299
they were Unworthy of the space

612
00:23:07,490 --> 00:23:05,100
brother's message because they couldn't

613
00:23:09,529 --> 00:23:07,500
see past the behavior of their messenger

614
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:09,539
that's some pretty unhealthy ethical

615
00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:11,760
gymnastics going on right there

616
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:14,220
Mundo would move on from the dfsc not

617
00:23:17,990 --> 00:23:16,080
only to write but also to establish a

618
00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:18,000
flying saucer organization called the

619
00:23:21,649 --> 00:23:20,280
planetary Space Center located in

620
00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:21,659
Dearborn Michigan

621
00:23:26,450 --> 00:23:23,220
the planetary Space Center was

622
00:23:28,909 --> 00:23:26,460
established on June 14 1958 and it would

623
00:23:31,250 --> 00:23:28,919
be closed by 1966.

624
00:23:32,810 --> 00:23:31,260
soon after its closing the Detroit Free

625
00:23:35,210 --> 00:23:32,820
Press did an extensive interview with

626
00:23:37,010 --> 00:23:35,220
Mundo it's fascinating and a little sad

627
00:23:38,510 --> 00:23:37,020
and I think it's worth taking a look at

628
00:23:41,210 --> 00:23:38,520
here as we finish up our second half

629
00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:41,220
dozen encounters and to be honest I'm

630
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:43,020
not sure when if ever we'll come across

631
00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:45,120
Laura Mundo again although I got to be

632
00:23:50,330 --> 00:23:47,580
honest um this show is the type of show

633
00:23:52,430 --> 00:23:50,340
where if anybody is going to find a way

634
00:23:54,770 --> 00:23:52,440
to work Laura mundo into the proceedings

635
00:23:56,750 --> 00:23:54,780
it's probably going to be us so we'll

636
00:23:59,270 --> 00:23:56,760
probably see her again but if not let's

637
00:24:01,370 --> 00:23:59,280
uh let's see how she ends everything

638
00:24:03,890 --> 00:24:01,380
Laura's entree into the saucer life was

639
00:24:06,049 --> 00:24:03,900
not the 1947 Kenneth Arnold sightings

640
00:24:08,210 --> 00:24:06,059
that kicked off the entire Flying Saucer

641
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:08,220
subculture of the time but rather being

642
00:24:11,930 --> 00:24:10,080
loaned a copy of the Georgia damski

643
00:24:13,010 --> 00:24:11,940
Desmond Leslie book flying saucers have

644
00:24:15,470 --> 00:24:13,020
landed

645
00:24:17,690 --> 00:24:15,480
in 1950 she divorced her husband Otto

646
00:24:20,090 --> 00:24:17,700
marks her and began a stint as a host on

647
00:24:22,250 --> 00:24:20,100
a local Detroit TV show Playschool kids

648
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:22,260
show she was a Storyteller she would

649
00:24:25,789 --> 00:24:23,760
have her own sightings and received

650
00:24:28,190 --> 00:24:25,799
psychic contact with venusian visitors

651
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:28,200
as we've seen she would serve as a sort

652
00:24:32,090 --> 00:24:29,760
of occasional Aid to Camp to Georgia

653
00:24:34,730 --> 00:24:32,100
damski on his visits to Detroit and she

654
00:24:37,370 --> 00:24:34,740
would author pamphlets and newsletters

655
00:24:39,649 --> 00:24:37,380
but for me the most affecting and

656
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:39,659
perhaps important part of her story is

657
00:24:43,370 --> 00:24:41,520
what happened to the planetary Space

658
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:43,380
Center

659
00:24:48,289 --> 00:24:45,360
for 11 years the presence of Laura

660
00:24:50,450 --> 00:24:48,299
Mundo's planetary Space Center at 24720

661
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:50,460
Carlisle Street in Dearborn made her

662
00:24:55,130 --> 00:24:53,039
neighbors uneasy Laura has seen flying

663
00:24:57,230 --> 00:24:55,140
saucers she says not once but several

664
00:24:59,330 --> 00:24:57,240
times she's talked with her occupants

665
00:25:01,549 --> 00:24:59,340
whom she calls the visitors and who she

666
00:25:03,649 --> 00:25:01,559
says primarily Are from Venus

667
00:25:05,810 --> 00:25:03,659
she says venusians are living Incognito

668
00:25:07,010 --> 00:25:05,820
among Earth people and she says she

669
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:07,020
knows why

670
00:25:11,330 --> 00:25:08,640
but all this in the eyes of her Dearborn

671
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:11,340
neighbors was not Laura's crime it was

672
00:25:14,990 --> 00:25:12,720
the fact that she shared her quote

673
00:25:16,970 --> 00:25:15,000
understanding with anyone interested in

674
00:25:18,890 --> 00:25:16,980
listening free of charge and for years

675
00:25:20,210 --> 00:25:18,900
there were lots of listeners especially

676
00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:20,220
neighborhood children

677
00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:21,720
that's what finally finished her on

678
00:25:25,909 --> 00:25:23,820
Carlisle Street it was like a Witch Hunt

679
00:25:27,950 --> 00:25:25,919
young Tufts began pelting Laura's house

680
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:27,960
with rocks and eggs frightened neighbors

681
00:25:31,789 --> 00:25:29,520
called police and threatened to have her

682
00:25:33,289 --> 00:25:31,799
arrested Anonymous telephone callers

683
00:25:36,289 --> 00:25:33,299
swore at her and called her a communist

684
00:25:37,250 --> 00:25:36,299
an atheist a paranoid and worse for two

685
00:25:40,370 --> 00:25:37,260
years

686
00:25:42,289 --> 00:25:40,380
wearily reluctantly five months ago

687
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:42,299
Laura sold the house that had been her

688
00:25:46,430 --> 00:25:44,400
home for 15 years and moved into a

689
00:25:48,169 --> 00:25:46,440
Dearborn Heights apartment rented in the

690
00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:48,179
name of a friend

691
00:25:52,430 --> 00:25:50,820
it's not difficult to imagine the nearly

692
00:25:53,930 --> 00:25:52,440
religious nature of her message was a

693
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:53,940
crucial part of her difficulties in

694
00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:54,960
Dearborn

695
00:25:58,190 --> 00:25:56,700
it's also a good reminder that despite

696
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:58,200
the ubiquity of flying saucer

697
00:26:02,870 --> 00:26:00,000
information in the media during the 50s

698
00:26:06,409 --> 00:26:02,880
and 60s enthusiastic acceptance of space

699
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:06,419
visitors was rare vanishingly rare

700
00:26:10,610 --> 00:26:08,640
it's also a sobering reminder that the

701
00:26:12,649 --> 00:26:10,620
saucer life can be a lonely one

702
00:26:14,510 --> 00:26:12,659
Laura Mundo had been in a damsky

703
00:26:17,149 --> 00:26:14,520
supporter and friend but adamski was

704
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:17,159
dead by 66 and the contact e-world was

705
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:18,720
Fading Into the past

706
00:26:22,970 --> 00:26:20,880
Carlisle Street in Dearborn is not the

707
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:22,980
Detroit Flying Saucer club and the

708
00:26:28,250 --> 00:26:25,200
people on Carlisle Street were not

709
00:26:29,769 --> 00:26:28,260
living Laura Mundo's saucer life

710
00:26:32,289 --> 00:26:29,779
foreign

711
00:26:34,130 --> 00:26:32,299
go out to The Black Vault at

712
00:26:36,890 --> 00:26:34,140
theblackvault.com which is where I

713
00:26:38,510 --> 00:26:36,900
obtained my Declassified FBI records you

714
00:26:40,010 --> 00:26:38,520
can of course get these from the FBI

715
00:26:42,110 --> 00:26:40,020
directly as well

716
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:42,120
that's it for series two and I'd like to

717
00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:43,440
thank you all very much for listening

718
00:26:48,350 --> 00:26:45,840
we'll be back with Series 3 beginning

719
00:26:50,090 --> 00:26:48,360
next week what makes Series 3 different

720
00:26:52,250 --> 00:26:50,100
from Series 2 I'll tell you what's

721
00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:52,260
different subtle adjustments to audio

722
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:54,179
settings that you will probably not be

723
00:26:58,669 --> 00:26:56,880
able to discern that's what's different

724
00:27:00,830 --> 00:26:58,679
seriously though the next batch of

725
00:27:02,510 --> 00:27:00,840
episodes are solidly grounded in the

726
00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:02,520
Golden Age of the Flying Saucer life

727
00:27:06,590 --> 00:27:05,039
from the late 40s into the 70s although

728
00:27:07,970 --> 00:27:06,600
if you don't want to consider the 70s a

729
00:27:08,930 --> 00:27:07,980
golden age I'm not going to fight you

730
00:27:10,850 --> 00:27:08,940
too hard

731
00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:10,860
some of the upcoming topics are ones

732
00:27:15,649 --> 00:27:12,480
with which you may be familiar such as

733
00:27:17,390 --> 00:27:15,659
ashtar command others possibly not such

734
00:27:21,649 --> 00:27:17,400
as the Borderlands science research

735
00:27:24,289 --> 00:27:21,659
Associates and their project etherea

736
00:27:26,510 --> 00:27:24,299
encounter 206 featured Nelson sanat as

737
00:27:28,490 --> 00:27:26,520
the voice of J Edgar Hoover and Roberta

738
00:27:31,010 --> 00:27:28,500
Evangeline straith as the voice of Laura

739
00:27:33,289 --> 00:27:31,020
Mundo you can follow along with us at

740
00:27:36,830 --> 00:27:33,299
saucerlife.com and at Twitter

741
00:27:38,810 --> 00:27:36,840
and Instagram at sauce at saucer life or

742
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:38,820
you can email us at theesaucerlife

743
00:27:41,930 --> 00:27:40,320
gmail.com

744
00:27:44,029 --> 00:27:41,940
if you could rate and review the show on

745
00:27:45,890 --> 00:27:44,039
iTunes Google play Stitcher anywhere

746
00:27:47,870 --> 00:27:45,900
else that's great sharing and retweeting

747
00:27:49,850 --> 00:27:47,880
of links to shows are also appreciated

748
00:27:51,470 --> 00:27:49,860
if you haven't subscribed using your

749
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:51,480
favorite podcast app or service please

750
00:27:55,490 --> 00:27:53,760
do so it's the easiest way to ensure you

751
00:27:57,470 --> 00:27:55,500
don't miss any of the action

752
00:27:59,930 --> 00:27:57,480
the saucer life is a chiso media

753
00:28:02,570 --> 00:27:59,940
production until next time keep watching